0:00:00.3 Kurt Baker: Get ready to explore the future of healthcare and innovation with Nach Davé and Junaid Mian. Nach Davé, a healthcare executive and regulatory affairs expert, brings over 23 years of experience in the pharmaceutical and medical devices industry. Known for his strategic expertise, Nach has been instrumental in supporting medtech startups and advancing clinical and regulatory strategies. Junaid Mian, a pharmacist, entrepreneur, and investor, sees the space economy as a driver for economic growth and healthspan. As an early investor in Axiom Space and other biotech ventures, he’s always seeking groundbreaking opportunities in both terrestrial and space-based biotech. Join us as Nach and Junaid share their insights into healthcare, biotech, and the exciting potential of space-driven innovation. Well, of course, with that intro, I have to let you know a little bit about my background.
0:01:03.8 Kurt Baker: My father actually was a space guy back in the ’60s within Florida where we used to shoot rockets up and then they would go down Cocoa Beach and they would have to like get rid of them before they hurt anybody kind of deal. Let’s just say, the truly exploratorial space. So me watching a space, anything to do with space is very exciting. Even to this day, I love to watch these launches and stuff. So I think it’s really cool what you guys are doing. So I guess I’ll start with you, Junaid, only because I’m connected to the space background. How did you get into the space things? When I left Florida when I was younger and people went outside, yeah, they’d watch like the big launches, but very few people were kind of connected to space. It was kind of a rare to feel a visceral like, “Hey, I love space”, ’cause it was a very small industry at the time. So how’d you get excited about it?
0:01:50.9 Junaid Mian: Well, I’ve always been excited about space. Growing up, obviously, like any other kid, I wanted to be an astronaut. Had no idea how to be an astronaut. Became a pharmacist. Well, anyhow.
0:02:01.9 Kurt Baker: That’s kind of a miss there.
0:02:04.3 Junaid Mian: Yeah, I went way off course, man.
0:02:07.0 Kurt Baker: I’m not sure how that worked out, but okay.
0:02:09.9 Junaid Mian: Their orbital transfer was way off. So, it was a couple of years after I graduated. I always had that bug of wanting to go to space and all that. But it was in December 2015 that, that first stage return for the Falcon 9 and I realized that that was a pivotal moment, not for just for SpaceX, but for humanity in general. And at that point, a lot of things I learned along the way, they started crystallizing more. I realized that the gateway to space was open and that we can use space as a platform to increase human health span.
0:02:49.3 Kurt Baker: Well, that’s amazing. You wanna tell us why you think that may happen? Only because, space is very different in space. You want to explain the difference when you’re doing something in space and maybe doing it on Earth and why that is a potential game changer for us all?
0:03:04.1 Junaid Mian: Yeah, absolutely. So in space, you can see and understand many biological processes a lot more clearer just because of the environment, microgravity. So I’ll give you an example. In space, you can grow protein crystals that are a lot more, I guess, almost perfect. And what that allows you to do, it allows you to change the formulation of many drugs. And so IV drugs can then be given subcutaneously, which then changes a lot. If you’re familiar with IV infusions, they can take a while. And sometimes you have to go somewhere else to do them. And sometimes you just can’t get there. So you’re not gonna get it. Well, if you make it subcutaneous, you can just give the injection to yourself at home.
0:03:44.1 Kurt Baker: Can you explain what that is exactly?
0:03:46.6 Junaid Mian: It’s like, well, for all those folks out there who take insulin, who also take now Ozempic.
0:03:52.4 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:03:52.5 Junaid Mian: That’s subcutaneous.
0:03:54.1 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:03:54.8 Junaid Mian: So you just literally can stab that into your thigh.
0:03:58.1 Kurt Baker: Oh, interesting.
0:03:58.2 Junaid Mian: Yeah.
0:03:58.6 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:04:00.0 Junaid Mian: Or any other fatty part of your body.
0:04:01.9 Kurt Baker: Wow, wow. Okay, so some of the experiments, you see things more clearly. You can do things more directly, more targeted, it sounds like, right? As far as what your results are gonna be and you don’t have the interference and things like what, I guess, is it the gravity? Is it, I mean, what’s interfering with that process that maybe is not happening in microgravity.
0:04:19.9 Junaid Mian: It’s the gravity.
0:04:21.8 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:04:21.9 Junaid Mian: The gravity interferes with that whole process. So even in space, you could 3D print literally in three dimensions.
0:04:27.3 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:04:27.5 Junaid Mian: X, Y, and Z axes. On Earth, you’re actually printing on a surface and then you’re going above that surface.
0:04:34.3 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:04:35.5 Junaid Mian: But in space, you can print in three dimensions. So imagine printing a heart in space.
0:04:40.0 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:04:41.6 Junaid Mian: You’d literally have these 3D printed heads going in those three dimensions, printing that heart.
0:04:46.4 Kurt Baker: Okay. But that’s a biological material. I understand when I’m taking, how are you printing a biological material? You wanna explain that? Because you’re dealing with cells and you’re dealing with fiber. You’re dealing with all kinds of interesting things.
0:05:00.6 Junaid Mian: Right.
0:05:00.7 Kurt Baker: So I get it if you’re doing like a plastic, that I get. But how are you, that sounds very complicated to me.
0:05:05.4 Junaid Mian: Well, you’d use a bio-ink. So a bio-ink would literally be an ink full of cells.
0:05:08.1 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:05:10.8 Junaid Mian: And those cells, you’d be using those cells to print. So on Earth, you’d use a scaffold, say the shape of an organ, and then you would print on that scaffold and the cells would then eventually come together to make the organ.
0:05:23.3 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:05:24.0 Junaid Mian: But in space, you won’t need that scaffolding because they’d be held in place.
0:05:27.7 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:05:28.3 Junaid Mian: In microgravity.
0:05:31.3 Kurt Baker: Now, if I’m building an organ, let’s say I need a new heart, I assume it needs to, I don’t wanna reject it. So am I taking my cells?
0:05:36.5 Junaid Mian: That’s correct.
0:05:37.7 Kurt Baker: And building this thing?
0:05:37.8 Junaid Mian: That’s right.
0:05:39.1 Kurt Baker: For myself?
0:05:39.4 Junaid Mian: That’s right.
0:05:39.7 Kurt Baker: So I could literally say, if you need like, an extra roll of toilet paper, buy extra toilet paper. If you might need an extra heart, you can go down to the, to Junaid and he’ll print you an extra heart just in case you might need it someday. This is kind of really crazy stuff in my head. This is awesome. But is that kind of what we’re thinking?
0:05:58.6 Junaid Mian: That’s exactly what we’re thinking.
0:06:00.9 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:06:01.9 Junaid Mian: Yeah, that’s exactly what we’re thinking. So you would usually take the patient’s own cells.
0:06:07.2 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:06:08.2 Junaid Mian: Roll them out for the bio-ink, and then print them whatever organ that they need.
0:06:11.0 Kurt Baker: Okay. Now let’s say I have a heart imperfection and I come in and I go, “Hey, look, that heart’s really cool, but can we tweak it a little bit so next time I don’t have a little AFib going on.” Or whatever, right? Can we like maybe do a little repair work while we’re building my new heart? Can I do a custom heart? How’s that?
0:06:30.4 Junaid Mian: A custom heart.
0:06:31.6 Nach Davé: Made to order.
0:06:32.5 Junaid Mian: Made to order, yeah. I hope so one day.
0:06:35.5 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:06:35.9 Junaid Mian: But I think we’re gonna take baby steps before we get to that heart.
0:06:41.2 Kurt Baker: Okay. So right now, your experimental level, I mean, where are we at today? And I hear where we’re going, hopefully, right? But like today, obviously I can’t go into my docs, I’m like, gee, I’d like to order a heart. Can you send it to me in a couple weeks?
0:06:53.1 Junaid Mian: Well, hopefully we’re gonna get there one day.
0:06:55.8 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:06:56.9 Junaid Mian: Right now, obviously we can’t do that.
0:06:57.0 Kurt Baker: All right.
0:06:56.9 Junaid Mian: They can print certain organs or certain parts of organs.
0:07:00.0 Kurt Baker: Really?
0:07:00.4 Junaid Mian: But the full organ is still a challenge.
0:07:01.9 Kurt Baker: So what can we do today, right now, like right this minute? What kinds of things can we do that maybe I hadn’t thought of?
0:07:07.0 Junaid Mian: Well, right now we can make organoids, which are little small versions of organs that we can test drugs on.
0:07:12.9 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:07:14.2 Junaid Mian: And the testing of that drug can inform the AI system itself.
0:07:17.0 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:07:17.7 Junaid Mian: On what’s going on and so forth. So we can do that right now.
0:07:22.7 Kurt Baker: So we build like literally like a mini heart? Is that what we’re talking about?
0:07:25.5 Junaid Mian: Like a mini heart.
0:07:26.7 Kurt Baker: Yeah.
0:07:26.8 Junaid Mian: Mini heart cells or whatever it may be. Some miniature version.
0:07:29.5 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:07:29.6 Junaid Mian: Right? Almost like a basic version of that organ. And then you can test on that organ.
0:07:33.3 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:07:34.6 Junaid Mian: Whereas, before you have to test other ways on an animal and so forth.
0:07:38.3 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:07:39.8 Junaid Mian: But animal testing and human testing are two different things.
0:07:41.6 Kurt Baker: I hear about like they put pig hearts in people and things like that, right? There’s all kinds of issues with that.
0:07:46.8 Junaid Mian: Well, there’s another thing called xenotransplantation where they can grow a human heart in a pig and then harvest the pig.
0:07:51.8 Kurt Baker: Really.
0:07:52.7 Kurt Baker: Yeah, there’s still issues with that.
0:07:55.1 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:07:55.6 Junaid Mian: Scaling it might be an issue, but I think this way is a lot cleaner.
0:07:58.8 Kurt Baker: Okay. So then you’re building these hearts and you just mentioned AI. So to me, that’s kind of an exponential learning curve. So the more of these you’re able to do, then I suspect this compounds on itself, right? I would suspect because the AI can analyze this a lot quicker than a human scientist could probably do it, I would think.
0:08:17.9 Junaid Mian: Absolutely, it’s exponential. So everything we learn is being compounded. And then the AI learns more and more. So what that does is you can literally replicate, it’ll be a digital version of a person in many ways.
0:08:27.8 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:08:28.9 Junaid Mian: So you can test whatever you want on this digital person.
0:08:31.3 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:08:32.6 Junaid Mian: So you kind of get around a lot of the ethical concerns as well.
0:08:35.1 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:08:35.9 Junaid Mian: But above that is it’s more of a robust model.
0:08:39.6 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:08:39.9 Junaid Mian: Right? And this AI person, synthetic person, can represent a large portion of people.
0:08:47.4 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:08:48.7 Junaid Mian: And if it works on this AI model, odds are it’s gonna work on most people. But eventually medicine’s gonna be personalized where it works for you.
0:08:56.2 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:08:57.9 Junaid Mian: Not based on some bell curve of how many people fit under the curve. The future is gonna be personalized.
0:09:01.9 Kurt Baker: Yeah. So any projections on when we might start seeing this go? I mean, what are kind of your thoughts? I know it’s all experimental right now, but.
0:09:09.8 Junaid Mian: Well, here’s the thing, right? It’s not on a linear scale.
0:09:13.1 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:09:13.8 Junaid Mian: It’s exponential, so it’s hard to predict. But you know what? Just for the show, I’ll put it out there.
0:09:17.4 Kurt Baker: Let’s hear it.
0:09:19.1 Junaid Mian: All right? I’d say before 2040.
0:09:21.5 Kurt Baker: Really?
0:09:21.6 Junaid Mian: You’ll see a lot of this. I think so.
0:09:24.8 Kurt Baker: Okay, it’s probably about what I might need. I’ll be roughly 80 years old. So if I need some replacement parts, I’m gonna call you up and say, “Dude, man, I got a little issue here. You mind?”
0:09:32.5 Junaid Mian: I’ll hook you up with a new heart.
0:09:36.2 Kurt Baker: Just in case.
0:09:36.6 Junaid Mian: Yeah, yeah, I’ll hook you up with a new heart.
0:09:39.8 Kurt Baker: Wow, that’s.
0:09:40.1 Nach Davé: Maybe, Junaid, you can book ’em, pre-book ’em.
0:09:43.5 Kurt Baker: Oh, can we do that? Can we, like a cemetery plot? Can I pre-purchase my heart in 2040?
0:09:49.7 Junaid Mian: You won’t need a cemetery to go to, Kurt.
0:09:51.6 Kurt Baker: What’s a, I mean, like a plot. Like how you pay for the plot.
0:09:55.1 Junaid Mian: Oh, yeah, yeah.
0:09:56.1 Kurt Baker: I wanna buy my heart now if I need it later on.
0:10:00.5 Junaid Mian: Kind of like a Thanksgiving turkey kind of thing?
0:10:01.5 Kurt Baker: Yeah, yeah, so I’ll buy it ahead of time. Save up my points for my grocery bill, maybe.
0:10:05.0 Junaid Mian: You’re gonna need a lot of points.
0:10:05.3 Kurt Baker: Once I get on. So you can do that, I assume. Well, we talked about heart, but I mean, the other thing I hear about is, like my wife has some neurological damage, like where she has a dropped foot and there’s issues going on with the leg. So is this the kind of thing we could go in and say, “Hey, let’s… ” Can we regrow things? Can we like come in and say, “Hey, let’s take your material and maybe let’s help you like fix spine.” I’m thinking about like spinal injuries and people who are like in paralysis. And can you, really kind of, I’m an engineer, so I’m like rewiring you. Can we like hook you back up again so this thing works again?
0:10:38.7 Junaid Mian: Well, that’s all regenerative medicine. And a lot of that won’t have to be done in space.
0:10:42.1 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:10:42.7 Junaid Mian: A lot of it can be done on Earth as well.
0:10:46.4 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:10:47.3 Junaid Mian: And so regenerative medicine is gonna be one of the huge, huge spots in healthcare, ’cause it solves a lot of issues.
0:10:56.1 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:10:56.7 Junaid Mian: A lot of issues.
0:10:57.6 Kurt Baker: All right, well, thank you. We’re gonna take a quick break. You’re listening to Master Your Finances. Welcome back. You’re listening to Master Your Finances. All right. Junaid, that was awesome.
0:11:05.5 Junaid Mian: Thank you.
0:11:05.6 Kurt Baker: I appreciate that. We’re gonna move on for just a little bit to a Nach. Tell me a little bit about how you got into what regulatory affairs expert sounds like something that I’m glad exists and I don’t have to deal with, ’cause that’s the kind of one where you make a phone call and write a check and you’re like, “You guys, help me out, man.” So how did you get into that? ‘Cause that sounds like a nightmare to me. So why’d you get into that?
0:11:26.6 Nach Davé: I think you’re spot on. Nobody really gets into it. It’s one of those situations where they say, “Oh, well, we got this real complicated document that we need to send to the FDA. Who’s gonna wanna help?” And everyone else moves back and you’re standing around. And they’re like, “Oh, you’re the lucky one.”
0:11:42.8 Kurt Baker: Oh, so you’re the last man standing. Is that what it was? You were the last one in the room.
0:11:46.6 Nach Davé: That’s how it is. That’s how it is. No one ever, ever comes out of school saying, “Hey, I want to do regulatory.”
0:11:51.1 Kurt Baker: Okay. So how’d it happen to you?
0:11:53.0 Nach Davé: That’s exactly how it happened. I was like kind of a newbie on the scene. And they said, “Oh, here we go. We got a live one. Why don’t we give him all of this stuff?” And that’s how I got into it. And then I guess, once you get past all of the boring paperwork, there is an element to it that is kind of exciting because you do have an opportunity to really put a strategy together on how to get some of these drugs and devices onto the market. And for me, that’s what’s kind of kept me around because that’s the type of stuff that, excites you and kind of gets you out of bed is, hey, if you don’t figure out how to convince the government to, accept the data or figure out how you wanna develop this drug, there could be millions of people who will never benefit from that therapy. So you really do kind of feel excited about potentially impacting millions and millions of people. And that’s what got me into it.
0:12:46.9 Kurt Baker: So here’s a question I have for you, because I hear a lot of times where people say, “Hey, why isn’t this available here? It’s available in Canada. It’s available in Europe. It’s available wherever.” Sometimes I feel like we’re like, we seem to be really good at creating these pharmaceutical drugs and things, but we seem to be like last to adopt, for some reason. That’s my perception. What’s your perception from a regulatory standpoint? And why do you think at least that perception is out there? And is that a reality?
0:13:11.6 Nach Davé: A bit of a reality.
0:13:13.8 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:13:14.5 Nach Davé: And the thing is that, in the US, the FDA is considered the gold standard in terms of all of the, from an integrity standpoint, or in terms of scrutiny that they put in before you get a drug onto the market. Now, there’s gonna be some folks who would probably disagree with me and say, well, there’s a lot of politics involved. And politics are always involved, as we’ve seen over the last couple of days.
0:13:37.8 Kurt Baker: Of course. It’s always part of the process. For sure.
0:13:41.4 Nach Davé: Always part of the process, right? So certainly politics is involved. However, the level of sort of rigor and scientific scrutiny that happens in the US probably, Europe is the only comparable sort of regulatory venue. And possibly Japan are the areas that are kind of considered gold standards in terms of drug and device development and approval. So that’s why you, I used to live in San Diego. I used to go down to Mexico all the time. And all of these drugs that we had to get scripts for are all available on the shelf there. So you can go to 7-Eleven and get the, most potent antibiotic or most potent drug that you want. No one’s, you don’t need a script or any of that stuff.
0:14:23.7 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:14:24.5 Nach Davé: But then you go back and realize, how did those drugs get onto that shelf? And then you’re probably thinking that, eh, maybe I don’t wanna take these drugs because I’m not sure how they got there or how…
0:14:36.4 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:14:37.8 Nach Davé: How much scrutiny was placed before these drugs were made available to the market.
0:14:41.3 Kurt Baker: And I’m a little curious, is there data, like comparing like US efficacy and like, side effects compared to like going to Mexico where it’s more readily available? Are we, there’s got to be a whole different set of data, right? What do we see in reality?
0:14:56.6 Nach Davé: Very simply put, we do all of the data gathering and to some degree, that’s why drugs are expensive here in the US. We generate the data.
0:15:03.7 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:15:04.2 Nach Davé: And then the rest of the world kind of uses that data to approve stuff in their own country.
0:15:08.4 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:15:11.0 Nach Davé: Like, “Hey, you got data from the US, so it should be good because it was scrutinized.”
0:15:12.5 Kurt Baker: So does like in Mexico say, “Well, all right, it didn’t kill these first three people, so we’re good to go.” Whereas we might say you need a thousand before we like figure it out. So they’re like ready to adopt it long before you feel like you collect enough, ’cause we’re all different, obviously.
0:15:26.6 Nach Davé: We’re all different.
0:15:27.3 Kurt Baker: So, I mean, you need a lot of people and a lot of like data to really figure out what the issues are, right?
0:15:32.9 Nach Davé: Yeah, absolutely. And by no means, I mean, look, the Mexican government and their authorities are doing what they need to do for their country.
0:15:37.6 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:15:38.9 Nach Davé: And, certainly they’re all, I’m not diluting any of their standards.
0:15:41.0 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:15:43.3 Nach Davé: They hold themselves to high standards as well, but the way the US develops drugs, the way it sort of evaluates drugs is by far at a much, much higher level than anywhere sort of else in the world. And that’s why I think, that’s why I think that the product that you get in the US is stellar. And that’s only half the equation. The other half is the follow-up, right?
0:16:04.8 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:16:05.5 Nach Davé: So if you release a drug to the market and you start seeing these side effects and all these types of adverse reactions and so forth, we have a fairly robust reporting protocol and follow-up, whereas in a place like, I mean, I do a lot of research in India and, India is a very advanced, a lot of good science. However, from a patient perspective, from a follow-up perspective, there’s virtually zero follow-up.
0:16:32.3 Kurt Baker: Interesting.
0:16:32.9 Nach Davé: And there’s zero reporting because, these types of systems just don’t exist. So if something’s going wrong with a drug, it’ll take a long time for some of these, for it to show up on the radar in some of these other places than it would in the US. So we do have a great vigilance and monitoring program for anything that’s approved by the FDA.
0:16:53.9 Kurt Baker: So are they literally like relying on the US to determine whether or not there might be some issues? And if we pull something off the shelf, does that mean someplace like India or Mexico might say, “Hey, US says this is maybe an issue, let’s pull it off the.” Is that the kind of thing that typically happens?
0:17:08.5 Nach Davé: They certainly take it into consideration.
0:17:09.9 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:17:10.0 Nach Davé: And then they take, they look at it a bit closer and then start looking at whether, the same things are happening. And because as you said correctly, everybody’s different.
0:17:16.7 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:17:18.0 Nach Davé: So we may see cases here that may not translate one-to-one into India.
0:17:22.4 Kurt Baker: And the environments can be different too, like the environmental situation.
0:17:26.2 Nach Davé: The diet’s different, environment’s different.
0:17:26.2 Kurt Baker: Yeah, exactly.
0:17:27.3 Nach Davé: So many variables, right? But certainly once we raise the alert or the red flag, it’s taken into consideration by many of these other sort of geographies.
0:17:35.8 Kurt Baker: Okay. So my next question is gonna be similar to Junaid, I asked him just a minute ago, it’s like, all right, now that we’ve got this whole AI thing going on, are there ways to speed up that process and increase the result accuracy by allowing these models to help us? And how would that actually be implemented? ‘Cause that’s just a computer. So how we actually, it’s not a person, right? So how do we, how are we using that data to kind of project maybe what we need to be looking at and whether or not there might be an issue with the population in certain circumstances?
0:18:04.9 Nach Davé: Yeah, I mean, similar to what Junaid was saying, AI and this sort of data feed that’s coming, we’ve been always collecting data.
0:18:12.8 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:18:13.6 Nach Davé: But we just didn’t, until now, we really haven’t had a great use for it. So now what’s happening is you’ve got all this data, you’re, especially on these drug and side effects side of things, totally makes sense because there’s a lot of repetition. Like the side effects that have been identified in the research happen all the time, over and over and over again. So there’s machine learning and this data pool allows us to better understand the side effects and these AI models are gonna pick that up all the time. And we’re relying more and more on these.
0:18:43.9 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:18:44.8 Nach Davé: AI models going forward.
0:18:46.0 Kurt Baker: So how do you parse out, and I’m gonna get the term wrong, but how do you parse out when somebody has a, like a coexisting condition? Like let’s say I don’t have a respiratory issue and a heart issue and another person doesn’t, they may have one or the other, but I’m dealing with like, some kind of respiratory medication or something but… So you’ve got all these variables, I guess what I’m saying is even in medical conditions. So how do you, as a data collector take that into account, whether I have diabetes, whether I have high blood pressure, all these other things that could potentially be going on to determine whether it’s actually this drug, or it just happens to be this person’s condition is so poor that almost anything is gonna hurt them, right, or help them for that matter, right?
0:19:22.2 Nach Davé: Yeah. And that’s a great question because that was a anomaly just a few years ago. But that, what we’ve gone through over the last, I’d say, five to seven years is this sort of upgrade in electronic health records.
0:19:37.3 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:19:37.4 Nach Davé: Now that everything is tagged in the databases, it’s really easy for us to differentiate between what conditions you have and, or I have and differentiate, because now everything’s coded, right?
0:19:51.2 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:19:52.1 Nach Davé: Even for reimbursement, things are coded. So now your entire profile is basically data tags. Okay. So now we know whether you’re, whether it’s the heart condition that’s causing this, or it’s the kidney failure or what have you, it’s so much more, accurate to just get a data cut of your profile and decide what’s the culprit and what’s doing the damage.
0:20:14.8 Kurt Baker: Do they include like, things like, that may not be considered. Maybe they are considered medically, like obesity as an example, because I know like for respiratory issues, I mean, if you’re obviously way more, your heart’s working more, your respiratory system’s working more than somebody maybe the same, but like me, I know that if I lose weight, I have better blood pressure issues. If I’m heavier, my blood pressure goes up. So I know even within my own body that I can one time have pre-hypertension and other times I’m fine. So do we account for that?
0:20:41.7 Nach Davé: Absolutely.
0:20:42.1 Kurt Baker: As well.
0:20:42.1 Nach Davé: It’s accounted for and it’s all the variables are sort of, and that’s sort of the beauty of AI now, ’cause now the data’s starting to talk to each other. And by talking to each other, we’re starting to get more and more accurate, profiles in terms of what’s, what are the co-dependencies. Whether it’s weight gain or weight loss, or you know, your diet or what have you. Everything’s starting to now make sense. It’s coming together. In the past, we were looking at everything in silos. Now we’re looking at everything in terms of the holistic picture of your health.
0:21:13.8 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:21:14.2 Nach Davé: So that’s where AI and data and all these things are helping us.
0:21:17.3 Kurt Baker: So you mentioned holistic, so we can add, because I’m going to see an integrative doctor. So you’re looking at like, the right traditional medicine along with maybe not quite as traditional, but seeing how they flow together. So as the whole modeling process is gonna track all this, so they say, Hey, maybe you need to take a medication, or maybe, no, maybe you need to do this first. Lose 10, 20 pounds first. Let’s see what happens. Are we gonna start having these kind of conversations saying this might be more effective than the other, prior to saying go ahead and take the pill, but wait, let’s wait. Let’s lose 10 pounds, then take the pill. Let’s see what happens. Then take the pill if we still need to.
0:21:48.8 Nach Davé: Absolutely. It’s to what Junaid was saying, that medicine will get super specialized as we go into the future, because now all of these factors are well known and we can make adjustments based on you and not necessarily just the generic patient.
0:22:02.0 Kurt Baker: Awesome. Okay, we’re gonna take another quick break. You’re listening to Master Your Finances. All right, welcome back. You’re listening to Master Your Finances. Okay, now you guys have told us all about these great technologies which are going to live to longevity, positive and negative issues in my mind, right? So if we start actually solving for, ’cause this is something that I deal with, like with high net worth clients. A lot of people think that they’re worried about their wealth or about this or that. Actually, the number one concern about those in that high net worth category is longevity. Not just longevity, but quality of life. Nobody wants to live in a nursing home for 20 years, right? We wanna live our full life, happy, healthy, mobile, interactive, all that other good stuff. And then eventually one day, that’s the end, right? That I mean, to me that’s the ideal. I’m gonna go, go, go. And then one day it ends and that’s it, right? I don’t, so now that we’re solving for this. How do you think that’s gonna impact both individuals and societies in ways we probably haven’t truly thought of?
0:23:04.2 Junaid Mian: It’s a, that’s a real juicy, juicy question.
0:23:09.0 Kurt Baker: I like it.
0:23:09.1 Junaid Mian: I think both of us gonna attack this one Nach. So I’m…
0:23:11.1 Kurt Baker: Let’s do it.
0:23:11.3 Nach Davé: Absolutely.
0:23:11.7 Junaid Mian: I’m gonna get this one ready and then you can go delve into it, right?
0:23:15.1 Nach Davé: Set it up.
0:23:16.1 Junaid Mian: Well, I wanna preface by saying that when we’re talking about longevity, we’re talking about people living healthier for longer, not living for longer. All right? I’ve been there.
0:23:26.1 Kurt Baker: Agreed.
0:23:26.6 Junaid Mian: I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it up upfront. It’s not very pretty. So let’s say the average age becomes 120. Okay? Across the board, which means that a lot of people will be 120 years old. Hopefully, they won’t look 120 right? Now one thing people have to understand is as you’re living longer, that social system that you’re in, the social structure matters a lot. So people talk about blue zones and so forth. The one thing they all share in common, regardless of geography, is that there’s a community that’s still intact. Their friends and family, a lot of them are still around. It doesn’t make sense to live to like 120 when everybody else around you is gone. So think about everybody still being around. So what does that mean? It means that families stay intact because the person’s still there. They have an influence. There’s a lot of wisdom that can be passed down. Things that aren’t found on the internet. Things that even ChatGPT doesn’t know, right?
0:24:29.5 Kurt Baker: There is such a thing?
0:24:31.4 Junaid Mian: There is, there’s some things that it doesn’t know yet.
0:24:33.3 Kurt Baker: I know, I know. I know.
0:24:33.7 Junaid Mian: Until it taps into your brain. But until then there’s a lot of wisdom that can be imparted down down the stream. So you’ll have multi-generational households right across the board. Have we ever had that before? Not really. So do we know what to do with that? We don’t. But you know what? I think it would be very good. I think having your family intact, not everybody living in the same house, obviously, but having the.
0:25:00.0 Kurt Baker: Yeah, that’d be like Thanksgiving 24/7.
0:25:01.1 Junaid Mian: Yeah. That’s, yeah. It’s like home alone.
0:25:03.7 Kurt Baker: That’s.
0:25:04.5 Junaid Mian: Every day. You remember all those people were together in that one house.
0:25:07.1 Kurt Baker: Yeah. There you go. Yeah.
0:25:09.1 Nach Davé: That will have an…
0:25:09.7 Kurt Baker: That’d be a little too much shit.
0:25:11.6 Nach Davé: That’s gonna have an adverse effect on longevity.
0:25:12.6 Junaid Mian: I think Kevin wanted to go in the attic.
0:25:16.4 Kurt Baker: There you go. Maybe.
0:25:17.4 Junaid Mian: But you know, it changes everything. If you know that you’re gonna live to about 120, your decisions today are different than if you weren’t. You think more long-term, you think more consciously about what you’re doing. So there’s a lot less short-term thinking and more long-term thinking, ’cause you’re gonna be literally intersecting that decision down the road. So I think there’s a big ripple effect to society that people aren’t thinking about, but I think it’s a lot of, it’s good.
0:25:49.8 Kurt Baker: I’d have to agree. And as one thing I try to emphasize with my clients is that I look at their family life expectancy based on their personal conditions relative to their relatives. Like do you have high blood pressure? Does your mother, your dad, how long do they live? We have kinda have these conversations to give an estimate of what they think realistically the longevity is. And then I encourage them, look, then add about 10 years minimum, because that’s probably more accurate based on everything that’s happening right now. And that could actually get even bigger, right? Be, but, because as we advance these things, and one of my concerns from my perspective, especially those that don’t have ultra high net worth and not really, they’ll outlive it. I mean, they’re fine financially regardless, but you have these other, this massive fluent which may actually outlive their wealth and have to change their lifestyle if they live 50, 60 years in retirement and that do, you have to be aware of that at least, and understand, well, how are you going to manage that whole thing, both financially and you pointed out socially.
0:26:46.5 Kurt Baker: And that’s, I think we’ve gotten better at connecting older people to new friends and family so they continue to have friends, ’cause social aspect of your life is really important. ‘Cause you don’t just want to exist and be older. You want to actually be socially active and interacting with people that you know and care about. Right?
0:27:01.0 Nach Davé: Yeah. There’s a couple interesting things that are going on, and I’ve kinda seen it firsthand.
0:27:06.5 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:27:07.7 Nach Davé: With my own mother and father. One thing is that, that generation, and even to some degree, my generation has always been sort of, trying to, when it comes to longevity or disease or anything, we’re kind of like, okay, let’s treat what happens. You know, let’s treat the symptoms, but we haven’t really thought about preventive, the preventive medicine. But now you see that all the time, a lot like Ozempic itself is out there and what are they doing? Hey, let’s try to do something to prevent the sort of the chronic issues, the chronic diseases that have been sort of knocking us out over the years. So now there’s a mind shift in terms of, yeah, there is value in preventive medicine, there is value in changing your habits, so you are gonna prevent some of these diseases.
0:27:53.5 Nach Davé: That’s number one. And the social aspect, it’s interesting. When my sort of father passed away and my mom was challenged in that generation, where’s she gonna go for her social life or what have you. It was one thing that and we’re all working, the kids are going to school. So she actually turned to technology to really strengthen her social life and kind of fill that gap that we created by not being around her. So as technology starts to evolve, this whole concept of longevity and, it’s really, makes sense. There’s a very logical sort of a cohesion here in terms of longevity technology. We’ve seen robots who are now in, like in Japan you get a companion, robot companion. Who’s…
0:28:43.9 Kurt Baker: IRobot.
0:28:44.9 Nach Davé: Yeah. And people are completely fine with that, right? So, yeah.
0:28:49.0 Kurt Baker: So how, how old was your mother when this all occurred?
0:28:51.0 Nach Davé: She was in her mid seventies and now she’s, as she’s a approach.
0:28:53.3 Kurt Baker: Say even older people. I just wanna make sure people know, even older people can adopt technology. Sometimes they, and a lot more older people are involved in technology than ever before, I think. Correct.
0:29:00.9 Nach Davé: Absolutely. I mean.
0:29:01.3 Kurt Baker: That’s what I’m saying.
0:29:02.1 Nach Davé: She’s.
0:29:02.1 Junaid Mian: Well, most of them are on Facebook, aren’t they?
0:29:04.0 Kurt Baker: I know the kids abandoned it, right? They’ve moved on.
0:29:07.4 Nach Davé: They’ve moved on to TikTok.
0:29:08.7 Kurt Baker: Now it’s older people are on Facebook, right?
0:29:09.6 Nach Davé: Yeah. So, I mean, it’s things like that. I mean, she’s probably got the highest score on Angry Birds in the entire house.
0:29:15.0 Junaid Mian: There you go.
0:29:16.1 Kurt Baker: Oh, my gosh, that’s funny.
0:29:16.9 Nach Davé: So that’s the type of things that we’re seeing out there.
0:29:20.0 Kurt Baker: Okay. Well, you just talked about something that I think comes up a lot, at least in social connections. Like, isn’t our system designed to create chronically ill people? ‘Cause now that’s a revenue stream for the industry. So how do you counteract the financial incentive? Like I would rather give you a diabetic medicine for the rest of your life than cure you. ‘Cause now I lose my revenue stream. So you got to, there’s a hard financial issue going on here, ’cause they’re using that money to research other things, but at some point they’re like, do we really have to release this, because if we do, we might disrupt our entire business model and we lose all this revenue stream. So what are your thoughts about that whole potential conflict of interest almost?
0:29:58.0 Junaid Mian: Well, think about it like this. Okay, you’re an insurance company and the hate, the thing you hate the most is paying out claims.
0:30:06.8 Kurt Baker: Very much so. Yes, I agree.
0:30:08.5 Junaid Mian: It’s you just hate playing out claims you wish you’d never had to, right?
0:30:11.8 Kurt Baker: Yeah. I want that bonus at the end of the year instead.
0:30:13.6 Junaid Mian: Just keep getting the premiums, Well, look, if people are living healthier for longer, they’re paying premiums and you’re not paying out a lot because they’re healthier. Now, even say you have a treatment that can cure something, I’m not gonna go deep into that. But there are several out there, they’re expensive up front, but once that’s done, the person no longer goes to the hospital. Okay? It’s done over a course of a couple of days or maybe a week or two, and it’s the end of it, right.
0:30:44.1 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:30:46.2 Junaid Mian: Maybe a couple of months, but that’s it. Now think about it. That person no longer has to go to the hospital, and if they die, those premiums stop.
0:30:52.7 Kurt Baker: True.
0:30:52.9 Junaid Mian: And plus the insurance company just outlaid all those, those payouts, right? Think about the payouts being decreased and now the premiums just keep coming in for year after year after year. That changes it. Now it’s like turning the Titanic around here. We’re not gonna flip over, but I think we’re making that turn. And a lot of it has to do with technology and AI. We didn’t have the predictive, the ability to make these predictions before. It was just like, I think you’re gonna make it. You might not, but now there’ll be some quantitative way to say, Hey, based on all this, odds are you getting that It’s about this much now.
0:31:35.0 Kurt Baker: ‘Cause you’re bringing up an interesting point ’cause I hear like, the medical profession like talks about how when you try to go to these more advanced, like potential, the ones that really want to do this, right, it’s easier just to give you the medicine. They all accept and put the code in and you get paid and it done, and they get it every month and they get whatever. But then it’s like, hey, look, this, you might actually benefit from this thing, might cost 10 times as much, but it’s gonna solve it, potentially. So how do we, ’cause they keep, I know they file these claims like over and over and over and over again. Then finally that goes through, I don’t know how they do this. They drive me crazy, but apparently I don’t even understand it. But so how do we get that model shifted so the insurance company understands the financial benefit of this because right now they don’t seem to get it, or maybe they don’t feel it is beneficial. Maybe their actuarial data is saying it’s not beneficial. So how are we like get through that pass and get to the other side somehow?
0:32:29.1 Nach Davé: Yeah. So I mean, it’s interesting what’s happening. Two or three days ago, I had a call with a company called Fora Health, and what they’re doing is they’re making the insurance companies realize other areas of revenue. So now what the insurance companies are doing is they’re getting into telecommunications, they’re getting into apparel. So what they’re saying…
0:32:50.7 Kurt Baker: Apparel?
0:32:50.9 Nach Davé: Yep. So what they’re saying.
0:32:51.0 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:32:51.9 Nach Davé: Or and into car manufacturing, etcetera. So what they’re saying is, if we indeed create additional years and longevity for our, for the citizens, they’re gonna go and they’re gonna use that phone 10 years more. They’re gonna go out and buy maybe another car, or they’re gonna buy some more clothes, so.
0:33:09.8 Nach Davé: The whole paradigm, I think is shifting in terms of incentivizing insurance companies or all these benefactors who are in the old model, they wanted you to kind of drop dead at 70 or 72. Are saying no, now people are living to 90 and a 100, 120. So there are other forms of revenue that can substitute and that they can use over a long period of time. So there’s a lot of diversification going on in the insurance markets and the insurance companies. And they’re basically partnering up with Visa, American Express. They’re benefiting from this longevity, phenomenon.
0:33:46.0 Kurt Baker: Awesome. We’re gonna take another quick break. You’re listening to Master Your Finances. Welcome back. You’re listening to Master Your Finances. This has really been fascinating. So how do we tie in like all this longevity stuff going on with all the space stuff that’s happening with the microgravity and all the experimentation. So how does all this piece together and what do you see the future holding as far as this whole path goes?
0:34:09.3 Junaid Mian: Yeah, absolutely. So I would consider it a vicious, not a vicious, sorry. A virtuous.
0:34:16.6 Kurt Baker: Virtuous sounds better.
0:34:16.8 Junaid Mian: A virtuous feedback loop, right?
0:34:18.1 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:34:18.7 Junaid Mian: So in space, you’re gonna have a lot of these floating labs. Once the ISS comes down and these labs, some will have a little bit of tourism on there, but largely it’ll be in space manufacturing to make many life science products, other materials and so forth beneficial for those on Earth. Now, what’s gonna happen, I think is as this loop gets started, so you create these products in space. Not every product has to be made in space, but some that are, will be used to obviously help people live healthier for longer. But as they live healthier for longer, then more products will come on board. So as this virtuous cycle starts to get into motion, that’s gonna push on. So the space economy is gonna drive the economy here and back and forth. As people live longer, more ideas can come into play and it just grows the sphere. So humanity’s sphere will start to grow beyond the Earth, literally spreading us into our neck of the woods here in the solar system. It sounds very fantastical and out there, but it’s already being done. These stations, the first station is coming up on, is gonna be launched next year, late next year.
0:35:28.8 Kurt Baker: So what’s that one gonna be? Especially guys against station.
0:35:31.4 Junaid Mian: They have a means to do, a spectrum of gravity so they can go microgravity all the way to 1G.
0:35:39.6 Kurt Baker: Really?
0:35:40.1 Junaid Mian: Yeah.
0:35:40.4 Kurt Baker: So can I be a tourist and go out and hang out here and like?
0:35:43.6 Junaid Mian: Let me talk to somebody about that.
0:35:46.6 Kurt Baker: No, I’m just kidding…
0:35:46.7 Junaid Mian: But, you’ll be able to test many variations of gravity to see where what happens. So many products can be made in different gradients of gravity.
0:35:53.9 Kurt Baker: Interesting.
0:35:55.3 Junaid Mian: So then the next station goes up after that. There’s another one. So by the time the ISS is retired, you’re gonna have about four or five stations up there.
0:36:01.8 Kurt Baker: Wow.
0:36:02.8 Junaid Mian: Those are private base space, space station. So that’s a lot different. The ISS was government run. That’s a whole different thing there because there’s no drive for profits, there’s no drive for innovation. If there’s an innovation, it’s like a side effect. Hey, great. You got this great thing that came out of it, but that wasn’t like a mandate or whatever. On the private stations, they have a drive to make money.
0:36:25.7 Kurt Baker: That means that space is finally getting, economically viable because…
0:36:29.4 Junaid Mian: Correct.
0:36:30.4 Kurt Baker: The reason the government gets involved in the first place is ’cause it’s something that private district just would not pay that amount of money, ’cause the return is gonna take so long.
0:36:36.7 Junaid Mian: You are absolutely right.
0:36:37.4 Kurt Baker: It’s too high risk.
0:36:37.9 Junaid Mian: Governments come in to pave the way first. Correct.
0:36:41.1 Kurt Baker: They kind of get started. But then once you get to that privatization, that’s where things really take off, literally.
0:36:46.9 Junaid Mian: That is how government private partnerships should play out. They lay the groundwork and then the private industry then builds on that, that the government.
0:36:54.1 Kurt Baker: Then NASA moves on to the next thing.
0:36:55.4 Junaid Mian: Absolutely.
0:36:55.9 Kurt Baker: They’ll find something else that’s crazy that we’re like…
0:36:57.7 Junaid Mian: They’ve got a lot to work on.
0:36:58.8 Kurt Baker: Yeah, it sounds cool. But I’m not gonna put money in that deal.
0:37:00.9 Junaid Mian: You’re exactly right, Kurt. They’re paving the way for going forward, right?
0:37:04.6 Kurt Baker: Yeah.
0:37:05.0 Junaid Mian: And so once those stations go up, then it starts to kickstart this virtuous cycle. I think that’s how it’s gonna play out. And so space is a large part of that, ’cause it allows for that. So it’s, you could think of space as a platform, right? It’s a place where you can learn, do things, make things that you just can’t do here. And we’re already doing it. So look at Starship. Remember that, when the, with the chopsticks.
0:37:32.9 Kurt Baker: Yeah.
0:37:32.9 Junaid Mian: That is a pivotal thing. I mean, people thought that was gonna happen 10 years from now, It happened what, two, three weeks ago.
0:37:38.7 Nach Davé: That’s right.
0:37:39.7 Junaid Mian: Once that frequency is established, you can go up and down frequently.
0:37:47.1 Kurt Baker: So the safety, it’s interesting to me, ’cause I mean, as I told you, I lived through this whole like, initial process and it’s like to us, every time a rocket went up and it was successful, like breathe a sigh relief. Now it’s almost like they’re getting a taxi ride somewhere.
0:38:00.0 Nach Davé: It’s commonplace.
0:38:00.4 Kurt Baker: I mean, it’s like, so, and I understand how complicated these things are and I’m like, don’t take it for granted. This thing’s going up and coming down ’cause there’s a lot going on there, man.
0:38:09.2 Nach Davé: A lot going on.
0:38:09.6 Kurt Baker: There’s a lot of forces acting against this vehicle. That a lot of times it, I don’t know that people are appreciating just how complicated and how difficult it is to get one of those things up there.
0:38:20.0 Junaid Mian: When it becomes commonplace like that, Kurt. You know, that it’s arrived. When you take it for granted, it’s now normalized. So it’s allowed to grow further now because people have accepted it. Like, you don’t expect that rocket not to come back, you know it’s coming back.
0:38:35.2 Kurt Baker: Right now. Yeah.
0:38:36.4 Junaid Mian: But it doesn’t have to, like you said.
0:38:37.4 Kurt Baker: Correct.
0:38:37.7 Junaid Mian: It doesn’t have to. Right, but people expect that.
0:38:40.1 Kurt Baker: Any mistake up there.
0:38:41.7 Junaid Mian: It’s over, but.
0:38:42.8 Kurt Baker: The environment is very unfriendly.
0:38:43.4 Junaid Mian: It’s unforgiving.
0:38:46.6 Nach Davé: Yeah. No, absolutely. I think you hit on a few interesting points and what I’d like to add to that is, that as just like we used to watch in the movies or in the cartoons, the Jetsons and all these things, like, those were all kind of things we grew up thinking, eh, it’s in the Hollywood or it’s in the cartoons and now it’s become such.
0:39:07.4 Kurt Baker: I’m still waiting for my flying car.
0:39:09.8 Nach Davé: Yeah, well, it’s coming.
0:39:09.9 Kurt Baker: I know.
0:39:10.3 Junaid Mian: It’s coming.
0:39:11.0 Nach Davé: A bunch of flying cars are coming. So, and I think for, as we look at all the topics we’ve talked about today, longevity and medicine and space, they all kind of come together because now you’re finally getting a chance to move past the sort of the restrictions of Earth and now going to space is actually gonna become affordable. It’s gonna become something that’s acceptable. It’s not necessarily a government thing, it’s not a just big government sort of doing it. And because of all this privatization that Junaid is talking about you and I can imagine going to space as either a traveler or even work up there. You know, there’s new jobs, new economies, new professions that are gonna be created where junior’s gonna say, Hey, I’m gonna go work in space.
0:40:02.1 Nach Davé: Just like people say, Hey, I’m gonna go work in London or Paris. Now you’re gonna go and say, I’m gonna work in space. And that’s, I think that’s where I think the fascinating part of the human race evolving and the things like longevity and drug discovery and all these things are gonna be needed because in order for this evolution continue, we’re gonna need these things in place.
0:40:26.2 Kurt Baker: Interesting. So that means if I’m in space, that means I’m for more than 180 days, I get tax exempt for US taxes. Is there gonna be a tax benefit to go up there?
0:40:34.7 Junaid Mian: Does that mean you’re permanently gonna move to space?
0:40:37.2 Kurt Baker: I don’t know. Yeah. Maybe be a citizen of space.
0:40:40.7 Junaid Mian: What would your address look like?
0:40:41.8 Kurt Baker: I don’t know, man. [laughter] It’s like.
0:40:44.3 Nach Davé: And being the.
0:40:46.6 Kurt Baker: The Mailman might be upset.
0:40:47.1 Nach Davé: Yeah, mail.
0:40:47.6 Junaid Mian: I mean, would it just say.
0:40:49.1 Kurt Baker: Maybe I gotta go up there.
0:40:51.5 Junaid Mian: Would it just say what Shackleton crater the moon? Like what would it say?
0:40:54.4 Kurt Baker: Exactly, exactly.
0:40:56.1 Nach Davé: Don’t do mail forwarding, that’s for sure.
0:40:57.8 Kurt Baker: So how are we doing, I guess, I know there’s a bunch of countries involved in this, so who’s kind of leading the way and like, what do you see? ‘Cause I’m all, I mean, I see Elon Musk, I see Bezos, I see all these people, involved here, but I know we’re not the only ones doing this stuff. It’s kind of a, there’s a couple other places. The Chinese, I think are doing, Europe’s doing it, right.
0:41:15.1 Junaid Mian: It’s largely a global effort.
0:41:16.6 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:41:17.1 Junaid Mian: But primarily led by United States.
0:41:18.0 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:41:21.1 Junaid Mian: China, obviously you got India going the in the game as well. UAE’s in there. Well, obviously Europe is in there.
0:41:28.2 Nach Davé: Yeah. Japan.
0:41:28.3 Junaid Mian: Japan. There are so many countries involved in the whole supply chain of space. That you’d be surprised.
0:41:33.3 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:41:34.4 Junaid Mian: Just about everyone has a touch point in there. You just don’t know about it. But it’s true. They’re there.
0:41:43.0 Kurt Baker: So as far as like, these first ones going up, what types of things do you think they’ll be developing to start? You have to start somewhere, and then obviously you see it kind of expanding from there. So there’s gotta be kind of that, I call it skateboard effect, where you start off with a skateboard, you build the scooter, the motorcycle, the car. I mean, so what’s our, kind of our first thing that’s gonna benefit from that microgravity and all that kind of thing?
0:42:06.0 Junaid Mian: I don’t know what the killer app is gonna be just yet. I have a couple ideas. I just can’t disclose them here, but.
0:42:11.9 Kurt Baker: Oh, well. Okay.
0:42:12.4 Junaid Mian: But they’re quite beneficial. Okay. Like if they, if they start that off, it’s gonna be, it’ll be the right way to do it. So you’re not going to create like little widgets and then morph into something important. It’s gonna be good stuff first.
0:42:28.2 Kurt Baker: Yeah.
0:42:28.4 Junaid Mian: To show that it’s viable. And right now it’s showing that it is, it’s just a matter of scaling it up.
0:42:31.8 Kurt Baker: So these things we’re doing on Earth currently, they’re like, Hey, if we were able to do this in space, we’re gonna like, have a much better result. Like something we kind of already know about, but now we’re gonna like really push it forward.
0:42:44.1 Junaid Mian: That’s right. So say a company water make, make a product that it’s hard to copycat, right?
0:42:48.8 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:42:49.2 Junaid Mian: So if they made it in space, in order to copycat that, you’d have to go to space. So why would you copycat it?
0:42:54.1 Kurt Baker: Yeah. It’s a little bit of a barrier for entry.
0:42:56.2 Junaid Mian: Yeah, it is. You know, it’ll be cheap enough so people can get in there.
0:43:00.8 Kurt Baker: So I can’t start my thing in the garage anymore. I gotta start it in my pod in space now. Is that what the new, is that the new thing?
0:43:04.7 Junaid Mian: You can start it in your garage on Earth.
0:43:06.1 Kurt Baker: Oh, okay.
0:43:06.8 Junaid Mian: Yeah. The proverbial garage is back.
0:43:08.7 Kurt Baker: Still. All right. There you go.
0:43:10.5 Junaid Mian: Yeah.
0:43:10.6 Kurt Baker: And now can I rent space? Now let’s say I’ve got a little thing I want to do and like, Hey, I’d like to send this up and like do this thing, ’cause I know sometimes like schools will do that, right? They do a little experiments in space.
0:43:18.5 Nach Davé: Absolutely.
0:43:18.8 Junaid Mian: They’ll let you do that. You’ll have a dedicated space in space where you can do your stuff without commingling with anybody else.
0:43:24.8 Nach Davé: Yeah.
0:43:25.6 Kurt Baker: So it’s like office share, you know?
0:43:27.6 Junaid Mian: Yes. Space Works, whatever you wanna call it.
0:43:30.7 Kurt Baker: Cool, cool.
0:43:30.9 Nach Davé: To answer that earlier question, right? What I think because so much of Earth is remote, there’s remote populations, there’s rural populations, the things that you’re learning in space can be applied immediately to Earth, because what it’s gonna do is bring people even closer together. So, for example, hey, if you, if it works in space, if it works in a remote environment like space, you can now release it to a remote population here on Earth. So, I mean, there’s just some immediate applications that we learn about. Like, whatever we learn in space can be applied immediately to the Earth environment.
0:44:07.2 Kurt Baker: Well, I’m excited ’cause I grew up, as I grew up in the ’60s, and a lot of people don’t realize how much technology was developed for the space program because they literally had a blank checkbook. Like, let’s make a microchip, let’s make of this. And they’re like, what are you talking about.
0:44:19.8 Nach Davé: Absolutely.
0:44:21.0 Kurt Baker: A lot of that kicked off a lot of huge industries now that never would’ve existed. At least they would’ve taken a lot longer to make. But now we’ve got this whole nother level where now it’s all privatized and they’re gonna expand. So this has been awesome. So you guys have any final thoughts before we leave for today?
0:44:39.0 Junaid Mian: You wanna go for it?
0:44:39.6 Kurt Baker: Go for it, man.
0:44:40.0 Junaid Mian: You know, my whole vision is to make 120, the new 60 and space is…
0:44:44.6 Kurt Baker: I love it.
0:44:46.0 Junaid Mian: And space is a part of it.
0:44:46.4 Kurt Baker: All right, man. I’m there with you, buddy. I’ll see you on my 120th birthday.
0:44:50.2 Junaid Mian: I can’t wait to be there.
0:44:51.3 Kurt Baker: All right, baby. All right. It’s been awesome. You’ve been listening to Master Your Finances. Have a wonderful day.
