0:00:00.5 Kurt Baker: Curious about how pediatric care and family wellness are being revolutionized? Meet Dr. Meaghan Andre-Brown, a visionary pediatrician and lifestyle medicine expert transforming how families approach health. As the founder of Empowering Pediatric Wellness, Dr. Meaghan combines her extensive medical expertise with a compassionate holistic approach to support children’s physical, mental, and emotional well-being. Her groundbreaking model of direct primary care, or DPC, ensures that families receive personalized accessible health care without the limits of traditional insurance.
0:00:44.0 Kurt Baker: Beyond her innovative practice, Dr. Meaghan is a passionate advocate for preventative care and lifestyle medicine, empowering families, and practical guidance on nutrition, sleep, activity, and stress management. Today, she joins us to share her insights on reshaping pediatric health care and the incredible benefits of DPC for families, and join us in welcoming Dr. Meaghan Andre-Brown, a trailblazer in modern family medicine. That’s cool. Yeah, I appreciate you coming on the show. I mean, you know, we met at a chamber event, and you started describing what you did, and I thought it was really cool ’cause a couple years ago, my wife and I went on to take on a concierge doctor with some of the reasons I think you’re doing what you’re doing. Kurt Baker.
0:01:31.0 Kurt Baker: So, I’d be interested in kind of explaining, like, what this is and how it’s different. I mean, anybody who’s had children has had the whole experience with a pediatric doctor. I mean, some good, some bad, some whatever, all blended styles and stuff like that. So, kind of give us an idea of what it is and why you’re doing it this way, as opposed to what most people are experiencing right now.
0:01:54.2 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, sure. So, thanks for having me. This is really exciting. So, yeah, I decided to do this model just because I felt like traditional medicine was doing a disservice to a lot of families in terms of just not getting enough quality care with their pediatrician, just not enough time, not enough guidance, and I felt it was a little bit frustrating just as a doctor myself, just seeing patients 15 minutes and then that’s kind of it and all that we have. So, in this model, it’s different where we can actually spend time. So, my patients were able to talk about, you know, anything that comes up in terms of parenting, if they have any concerns there.
0:02:42.0 Meaghan Andre-Brown: We can really focus on a lot of lifestyle prevention, nutrition, physical activity, mental health, all of that. So, I really felt like this was a need for families just to be able to have a trusted advisor along their path of parenthood ’cause being a parent is hard and sometimes we have so many questions and you just don’t have enough time with your pediatrician to like get all those questions answered. So, this model allows me to develop relationships with families and really focus on just prevention rather than just like treating illnesses.
0:03:27.2 Kurt Baker: No, I agree 100%. I know, I’m thinking back, this is the ways, so if I’m a little older, if my children are grown, but especially as a young parent, I’m thinking back, right? Young parent, I just remember the delivery room. They came in and they handed us our son and they’re like, “Okay, here’s your child,” and we’re kind of like, we kind of looked at each other like, “Okay, I guess we got to take care of this now.” So, we had this like strange excitement, but still we’re like, “Oh, this is a huge responsibility.” And then as time goes on, now you have to go in and find out like all, there’s a lot to know.
0:04:05.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right.
0:04:06.9 Kurt Baker: Right. I remember my wife read this book, What to Expect When You’re Expecting kind of thing. And then when you have the child, it’s, so how do you help kind of these young parents? Because I know you’re kind of thrown into this. You really just talked to friends that maybe had children and that’s really about it. I mean, there’s really not a whole lot of, and as you point out, when you go to the doctor, they’re really just, you know, kind of taking the temperature, making sure the child’s healthy and yeah, the child’s good, go.
0:04:27.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right.
0:04:28.8 Kurt Baker: But that’s kind of it. You’re not really given any guidance on all the other things that you tend to learn on the, I call it the experimental child, which was our first child. You just, you try everything on them and you figure out what works. If you have multiple children, you go, “Well, we won’t do that one again ’cause it didn’t work on the first one.” Right. So.
0:04:46.2 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, for sure. So I mean, yeah, there’s no like guidebook on how to parent and there’s different ways of doing things too. But, really with my approach, like I offer like a newborn package where, you know, families, I meet them beforehand. We kind of go over things, what to expect, how to change a diaper.
0:05:07.0 Kurt Baker: Right. Yeah. Simple stuff. Exactly.
0:05:09.8 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Those things that you don’t know or nobody teaches you. Right?
0:05:12.5 Kurt Baker: Correct.
0:05:15.8 Meaghan Andre-Brown: And then through the whole like fourth trimester up until like three months of age, you get me like weekly, we’ll have like weekly visits or just like talks like, “Oh, hey, my child’s doing this. Like, what do you think about this?” Or, you know, there are so many things when you bring home your newborn, like just like the sounds they make sometimes can be terrifying. Right?
0:05:35.1 Kurt Baker: Right. True.
0:05:36.1 Meaghan Andre-Brown: So there’s a lot of questions. And like you said, now in this day and age, there’s also just so much information. So like social media and just Google in general. So I just feel like we’re like bombarded, like new parents are bombarded with so much stuff and they don’t know which way to go sometimes. And having a pediatrician, the way I practice is like, okay, you can bounce ideas off of me like, “Oh, I saw this on Instagram. And what do you think about this?” So I definitely allow for more guidance throughout the whole process and not just newborn period, but even like every part of being a parent. So there’s like the toddler stage, there’s obstacles being preschool, there’s obstacles. You’re always gonna hit obstacles no matter like what age your child is. So really like having that partner in this is really my goal of having my practice.
0:06:33.0 Kurt Baker: Well, I find, one thing you mentioned, I didn’t even know is that you actually talked to the parents before the child comes to visit us in the real world, right?
0:06:43.6 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yes. Yes. So that’s important.
0:06:46.0 Kurt Baker: That is interesting. I never heard of that where you’re giving them guidance near the end of the pregnancy. So they’re like, “Oh, okay. We’re getting closer and closer.” Whereas at least my age group, there was no, you know, they just got you to delivery room and then you’re kind of like, “Good luck.” You know, when you’re, when we think you could go like this afternoon, you’re on your way home and you’re like, you’re literally just asking friends like what to do. So it’s nice to have it. And you also mentioned there’s a lot of information out there, but it’s not necessarily applicable to your situation a lot of times, right?
0:07:15.2 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Exactly.
0:07:18.6 Kurt Baker: And so that I think can be a little disconcerting ’cause you’re gonna hear the, especially as a new parent, you’re gonna hear things and see things and you’re gonna be like, “Oh, should I be worried about this? Is this a problem?” And a lot of things just might be natural development of the child. And there’s times where maybe the noise or the thing that the child is doing could be a problem. Maybe it’s just something normal, right? Like you don’t have to worry about it, just keep an eye and don’t be concerned about it, right? So.
0:07:50.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right. Yeah. So there’s a lot of new things. So I think just having a pediatrician where you could just text or you can just call them is really valuable for these new parents, especially, just with any questions or concerns they might have.
0:08:08.3 Kurt Baker: Right. So are you, because I know that, I know with adults, it seems to be taking hold for sure because of the people I work with and myself and everything. So, I mean, that’s definitely taking hold. So you, are you seeing this as a new trend? I mean, how long has this kind of been around? Because I just learned about it when I met you. That’s the first time, that was my first experience. So has it been something that’s been around at some level for a long, long, long time, but it’s now it’s kind of taking hold or is it relatively new or kind of how did this develop as far as you’re aware.
0:08:35.6 Meaghan Andre-Brown: I think It’s relatively new, I would say. But there have been pediatricians, I think the oldest pediatrician, like DPC practice, like mine is about six years old.
0:08:46.7 Kurt Baker: Oh, that’s pretty young.
0:08:46.8 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. It’s the longest one that I’m aware of.
0:08:50.4 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:08:51.0 Meaghan Andre-Brown: But there are lots of more that are popping up recently. So within the last like two years, I feel like it’s definitely kind of taking off. I’ve been seeing a lot more posts and people posting that they’re opening their own practice. So yeah, it’s definitely coming.
0:09:08.7 Kurt Baker: Do you think that, did something, because you’re talking about the time period will a six year old know, but did anything have to do with all the issues we dealt with when we were literally remote and you couldn’t necessarily see your doctor unless it was in a particular case. And cause two years ago, that’s literally, we were kind of coming out of the whole COVID thing and the lockdowns and all that. So did people like, I’m trying to figure out like what kind of alerted to people to, maybe this is, there’s a better way to do things.
0:09:32.2 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. I mean, I think that probably played a role, ’cause I think during COVID and all of that, the DPC were able to shift things a lot more quicker than like traditional medicine. And they could, I mean, we do virtual visits, so it’s not something unheard of or some of the pediatricians would do home visits in traditional medicine, you don’t do that.
0:09:56.6 Kurt Baker: No, that’s definitely.
0:10:00.3 Meaghan Andre-Brown: So yeah.
0:10:00.4 Kurt Baker: Not anymore.
0:10:00.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: In our model we would be able to go to the house and see the patient if need be. So I do think there was a lot more flexibility, for DPC practices. And I think now a lot of doctors are seeing the other side of being able to practice medicine the way we wanna practice medicine in terms of providing quality care for patients, building relationships with families. I think a lot of, well, me as a pediatrician, I went into pediatrics because I loved the relationship building of being a pediatrician and seeing the child growing up from newborn all the way up to teenage years. And in traditional medicine, you don’t get to make those relationships as much as I thought.
0:10:47.0 Kurt Baker: Right, right, right.
0:10:49.1 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Which is why I feel like this model is so much more impactful.
0:10:53.2 Kurt Baker: Awesome. Okay. Now that you’ve gone through and you kind of did an analysis like from the, like the patient standpoint, obviously. So there seems to be more of a demand. But the other thing that I think I noticed, at least from what I’m reading of talking to people is that you touched on how the quality of life for the doctor has changed. Right? And I think I’m seeing a lot of like, a lot of doctors literally left their practice ’cause they were like, “Look, I’m burnout. I can’t do this anymore.” You have this cost compression thing going on with reimbursements and they’re spending a lot of time dealing with insurance companies and things like that and less time with the patients.
0:11:34.9 Kurt Baker: And that’s not really why most people get into medicine. I’m assuming, I’m assuming they wanna take care of the patients. So does this allow you, is it easier as far as how your reimbursements are? ‘Cause the one I have actually kind of does a blend, like certain things I’m paying directly, but they do do reimbursements too. And I know there’s other levels where it’s just, you just pay for everything. Right? So it depends on what you wanna do. There’s all kinds of like models out there. So how does this one work kind of thing?
0:12:00.7 Meaghan Andre-Brown: There are different types of models. Mine, I don’t take insurance at all. So it’s a flat monthly fee or a flat yearly fee. And then everything is included in that fee. So unlimited visits, so all your sick visits, all the well child visits depending on their age. And then like texts, calls, video, tele visits. I do offer home visits for the newborn period. And then after that is for a fee. But the only thing that I would take insurance would be for like vaccines, for lab work or any imaging or, need be, if they have to go to the hospital, then they would use their insurance. But to your point in terms of like quality of life for physicians, I feel like, yes, a lot of physicians are getting burnt out. And I think I kind of went through that pretty early on in my career.
0:12:55.6 Kurt Baker: Okay, ’cause you’re pretty young.
[laughter]
0:13:00.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: I am, I definitely am. So, but this model allows us to, like I said, practice medicine in a way where we can build relationships with families. Like I’m able to sit down and have a conversation and really feel like I’m making an impact in their life. And in the child’s life. So I do think it overall, it’s much better and I feel happier. Like I think, I definitely went into medicine to help kids and help families and the way that traditional medicine is where I felt like it was just like, you know, in and out, in and out. Like, you know, I have to be out of here in 10 minutes or else my whole schedule is gonna be off. So it’s more like number game in the traditional medicine where this time it’s like actually bringing back the patient-doctor relationship.
0:13:53.5 Kurt Baker: Yeah. And I can’t, and I agree with 100%, ’cause we’ve, we raised our children, we didn’t have any issues necessarily with the pediatrician, but I know our children had, like my specialized son had mental health issues and it was like, you’re trying to develop these relationships with different therapists. And anytime you changed a therapist, it was like this, it was like, you’re starting all over again and they had to figure out who you were and understand you, ’cause everybody’s different. And I can see how, regardless of what type of medicine it is, everybody’s responding differently to different issues that happen to them. So if you see the child over a period of time, you kind of get to know the child in certain ways as well as the parent does, at least from the physical and their health, mental health and all these other aspects as far as how they’re developing, right?
0:14:32.2 Kurt Baker: Because you go through different stages, especially as a child, there’s different parts of that, right? And everything’s a little bit different, like, and to know how the child was at two is gonna help you understand like what’s going on at four and five, I’m assuming, right?
0:14:46.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, for sure. Just like their personality and overall how they deal with certain things.
0:14:51.8 Kurt Baker: Right.
0:14:53.1 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. And this allows me to see the children kind of develop over time.
0:14:57.3 Kurt Baker: Okay.
0:14:57.8 Meaghan Andre-Brown: And we do year, like for traditional medicine, you’re seeing patients yearly, I would say, which a lot goes on in a year for a kid, right?
0:15:07.5 Kurt Baker: Sure.
0:15:09.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: So sometimes seeing them more often than just a yearly visit, would be helpful depending on the kid, and like you said, for mental health. So we, for my teenagers or preteens, we always evaluate for mental health, but we also do like quarterly check-ins with the patient to make sure everything’s going well, ’cause you never know, things change very quickly. And just seeing the pediatrician and times of like, “This is happening right now, like we need to fix it.” I approach thing as, “Let’s try to prevent it so we don’t get to that point.” So, that I think is really important.
0:15:46.1 Kurt Baker: Well, yeah, I think that’s a key point. I was, yeah, glad you brought that up because I think one of the things that we miss, just the way medicine seems to be set up now, it seems to be a reactive model where it’s, “Okay, you come in with a temperature, we’re gonna try to like change the temperature,” whether, but it’s, but there might be, oh, we don’t spend a lot of time thinking about what caused it to get to that point where these things are happening. They don’t seem to think a lot about that. I mean, not that they ignore it totally, obviously, but I feel like we’re, what I like about it is, is we’re spending a lot more time saying, how can I change things to get a better, to be healthier essentially, right? So, I mean, what kind of things tend to come up with like children and how do you approach this as far as the preemptive side to try to get ahead of it and encourage the parents and the child to have good habits, to have good, you know, really, really respond like if they’re feeling a certain way, well, maybe here’s some adjustments. I mean, how do you kind of go through that whole process with it? ‘Cause there are, as you just point out, there’s different ages, different things.
0:16:48.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right, right.
0:16:48.9 Kurt Baker: So, you got the child, you got the parents, there’s a lot happening here, right?
0:16:52.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: There is a lot happening, yeah.
0:16:54.2 Kurt Baker: I mean, I’m just trying to understand how you kind of navigate all this with young people. I mean, I think it’s challenging, right?
0:17:01.0 Meaghan Andre-Brown: It is, it is. So, you know, for things to change with a child, things typically have to change with the family. So, there’s a lot of input from parents that needs to happen. If you want the child to, he’s a picky eater and I want him to eat better. Okay, well, let’s try the work on that, but it’s gonna be a more of a family approach to that. So kids are like mirrors. So, and their parents or caregivers are typically their first role model. So, a lot of what they…
0:17:34.9 Kurt Baker: I can’t eat donuts and get my kids buckling? Is that what you’re trying to tell me?
0:17:37.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right, that’s not gonna work. So, it’s really like small changes. So, I really like, depending on the situation, like let’s just say the picky eating, we work with the family and then the patient and like, “Okay, well, let’s try to do one new food and let’s try to make it a little bit fun,” depending on their age. Let’s cut the broccoli into little trees or something like that, or get them involved in the cooking process. And so, it’s more of like a family dynamic and kids will see if families are making changes and making these small things into their daily life, they’ll pick up on it.
0:18:17.0 Kurt Baker: True.
0:18:18.7 Meaghan Andre-Brown: And they will definitely start implementing that too. Like, even just like working out, like, “I want my child to be more physically active.” Like, “Okay, well, let’s do a family walk after dinner and see how that works out.” So, it’s just like these little things, but family involvement is so important, which is why I think the model of DPC like allows me to get into that. Whereas in traditional medicine, don’t have time to like talk about that stuff. It’s just like, “Okay, well, eat your veggies and I’ll see you next year.”
0:18:52.0 Kurt Baker: Yeah. No, no, I hear you.
0:18:53.2 Meaghan Andre-Brown: So we don’t get that time to like really make a plan for the family, where as my model, I can sit down and we make a plan and we have visits that we’re making goals and things like that.
0:19:06.1 Kurt Baker: Well, you just mentioned something I think is kind of interesting. You’re in pediatric medicine, but you’re talking about family medicine in a way. Because in order to encourage the child to do certain things, the family really has to kind of adopt a similar lifestyle ’cause it’s, otherwise it’s not gonna really be effective.
0:19:23.7 Meaghan Andre-Brown: It’s not gonna be effective, right.
0:19:26.6 Kurt Baker: You can’t literally tell the child to do one thing and you do something differently. So I can see how doing things this way would actually maybe help even the parents’ health.
0:19:36.1 Meaghan Andre-Brown: For sure.
0:19:37.4 Kurt Baker: Indirectly without them actually realizing that, “Oh, wait a minute, I guess I’m eating more vegetables ’cause I’m trying to get my child to eat more vegetables and I’m actually paying more attention to my own diet, ’cause I want my child to be healthy and I understand that I have to be a role model.” And that’s really kind of the key here, right? Is a part of this, is teaching the parents how to be better role models and identify the needs of their child and where maybe things are kind of falling through the cracks. And that’s the part a lot of us don’t realize until it’s till after the fact. Like, I wish I’d caught these things earlier, but you just don’t know sometimes ’cause you, a lot of times we just attribute to, oh, they’re just children, that’s just, they’re just acting up, or they’re just this or just that. But that’s not necessarily the case.
0:20:17.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah. So I think yeah, the other thing that I… So I’m also a lifestyle medicine doctor, which you had mentioned earlier. So that really focuses on prevention and its evidence-based strategies to have healthy habits in your life. So that can apply to both adults and for children. So I think like a lot of what I learned from that, I try to bring into my practice and that’s applicable to adults. So really it’s just like eating well, physical activity, good sleep, focusing on mental wellbeing and then handling stress also is another big one. So I try to incorporate those when I have visits with families too.
0:21:14.8 Kurt Baker: Wow, that sounds really awesome.
0:21:14.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah.
0:21:21.9 Kurt Baker: So with the holistic style of medicine, I think you called it lifestyle, which I think is great. I think it’s really important. You mentioned a whole bunch of areas there, and one thing that I know that whenever you try to change a habit, it’s kind of tough, right? So if people come in, I know that sleep is huge for children especially, and for adults, of course, but I think even more so for children. I think most of our children don’t sleep enough. And if they don’t recover and sleep, then they’re not mentally ready for the next day, especially when they’re in school age and have to go to school and things like that. So what kind of steps do you help to get, ’cause where we live, especially this part of New Jersey, it’s like one of these high stress, high producing adults, they want their children to do really well.
0:22:08.5 Kurt Baker: And it’s not that that’s a bad thing, but I think what’s often missed is, if you’re not taking care of the child’s physical and mental health and their habits, then long term, this doesn’t necessarily work out. Like in our district, the majority of children do not like going to school which is not a good thing long term, because you want them to wanna love learning and wanna continue to learn, ’cause that’s kind of what we do as adults. If you wanna be successful, you have to continue learning and continue growing in your area of expertise. So how do you start this process, so it’s not kind of overwhelming, right? That’s kinda what I’m thinking of. Like, there’s probably a lot. You could probably, if you go through an analysis, you’re like, “Oh, we have to do like 20 things.” And you’re like, “But they’re not gonna do 20 things,” so you have to kind of like… So how do you kind of prioritize and walk them through to kind of nurture them into this process without scaring them, so to speak?
0:22:58.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. So I definitely have to meet them where they’re at. So that being the child, and then the family. And then we kind of will go through as to what is the biggest thing that we could work on. And it’s not gonna be like an overnight thing. This is like a process, and we make very small changes. So like you mentioned sleep, so sleep is a big one for a lot of kids. And depending what age they are too, but I would say most teenagers aren’t getting enough sleep. And I think that screen time is really affecting sleep for a lot of teenagers, so I try to work on let’s decrease some of that screen time before bedtime.
0:23:44.9 Kurt Baker: So how do we do that, because this is our issue too, is like, ’cause yeah, we talk about this a lot with students when we go to… Nonprofit does this, but it’s like that’s a tough one, ’cause they’ll actually rebel. They’re like, “Oh, I need my phone with me 24/7, otherwise,” I don’t know. I have no idea, but it’s like…
0:24:00.3 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. It’s hard.
0:24:03.9 Kurt Baker: Right. I know. I didn’t say it was easy.
0:24:04.0 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right. Yeah. No, it’s definitely tough. So it kind of depends. Like my goal for teenagers is to shut down all screen time an hour before bedtime. Like that in an ideal world is what we do.
0:24:18.3 Kurt Baker: Sure.
0:24:21.3 Meaghan Andre-Brown: And so we just kind of slowly work to build up to that. And so that’ll depend, like, “Okay, you can have your phone in your room, but let’s just like put it on like one of those focus modes where you’re not gonna get alerted and it can just be near you.” And so which is some people need it. It’s like, they’re like addicted to their phone. They need their phone.
0:24:45.3 Kurt Baker: It feels weird when you don’t have your phone, honestly. That’s true nowadays.
0:24:48.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. So, we will work on that, or we can do… We just like, slowly back down the amount of time they’re using it. It’s just like really the blue light from the screen really keeps them up.
0:25:02.1 Kurt Baker: It does, yeah.
0:25:03.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: And their mind is… And it’s hard and then they’re going to bed and it’s like they’re just scrolling and it’s then midnight. And they have to wake up at 6:00 AM. So it’s really just making small little changes. Cutting off and just saying, “Oh, I’m gonna lock up your phone,” really isn’t a great strategy ’cause yes, most teenagers are gonna rebel with that. So it’s really working with them and then also making it like, okay, parents are also sometimes addicted to their phone too, and are on their screen before bedtime as well. So it’s like, “Okay, well, how can we do this together?” So like, the teenager is not doing it all by himself. Like, “Okay, mom and dad are also gonna be with me doing this, and it’s gonna be hard for them too, and we can kind of do it as a family unit.” Which sometimes is helpful and works out much better than just having the teen like singled out.
0:25:52.6 Kurt Baker: I would agree. I know whenever like somebody goes on a diet in a family, the other person’s people tend to benefit, ’cause it’s like, “This is how we’re gonna eat now.” They go, “We probably should have been eating this way.”
[laughter]
0:26:01.8 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. Exactly.
0:26:05.1 Kurt Baker: You get this kind of extra benefit. But yeah, so we go ahead and we encourage them to be healthier, so you got the sleep. Now what about the different strategies to just stay healthier overall like what… I know eating is important, sleeping is important. And what other habits should they have? I know exercise is important. So how do we kind of integrate all these pieces to make sure that we are at our best? And then how do we like kind of test for that? I’m assuming you’re doing some kind of tracking to see like how they’re doing and stuff. So how do I know if I’m on track, I guess is probably what I’m after here. Am I healthy or am I not healthy?
0:26:48.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right. And I think that’s gonna be individualized. It’s not like a one approach for everybody type of thing. And so I think we have to, like with my model is like really individualized plan. For one person, it’s gonna be different than the other person. So I think, yeah, my goal for most kids is to make sure we’re eating a good variety of foods so we’re not just eating French fries and chicken, that there is a colorful plate that they have in front of them. So trying to get on some type of plan so we could implement that physical activity, making sure that they’re active at least 30 minutes a day of some sort, going outside even in the wintertime, just getting some sun is…
0:27:41.0 Kurt Baker: Cold air is good for you.
0:27:41.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah.
0:27:42.2 Kurt Baker: It is.
0:27:43.1 Meaghan Andre-Brown: So they just being outside, just being active and then sleep, getting at least eight hours of sleep at night, depending on their age, sometimes more. And then having a good bedtime routine I think is super important, especially for younger kids and really sticking with that and that can be a struggle for a lot of parents. So yeah, I think there’s a lot that goes into it. And you’re not gonna, It’s not… Nobody’s gonna be perfect at all these things.
0:28:12.1 Kurt Baker: Oh, no.
0:28:12.9 Meaghan Andre-Brown: And that’s not like what I’m striving for. I’m just striving so we can find something that your family values, and how can we work on that to optimize it as best as possible, so we can have these long-term habits that we can go through life with.
0:28:28.5 Kurt Baker: Yeah. And I think you just brought it up. Those routines and the habits are really, I know I rely on it very heavily. When I finally get a routine or habit down that’s working for me, it’s almost like you get upset if you break it because you know it works, even though it’s kind of a little bit of a pain, but you have to do certain things every day, otherwise you’re not gonna feel as good long term. And I think somehow getting children to realize that whatever it is, brushing your teeth, eating right, exercising, these kind of things. I know I certainly didn’t think that way when I was a kid, ’cause you just run around doing whatever. I’m lucky I survived childhood. Much less was healthy.
0:29:09.3 Kurt Baker: So the fact that we’re focusing on this, I think it’s just awesome. I really think it’s awesome. So what do you see where we go as far as like the strategies, like how do you outline the strategies? Like if I come into you, how do we start this whole process. I’m assuming you do some kind of analysis initially with them and have a conversation and then how do you walk through and monitor throughout the year? I know you said they can come wherever they want, but I’m assuming there’s some kind of like structure as far as they come in, they do this, just to kind of see how things are going and the feedback from the family and stuff like that.
0:29:45.6 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right. Yeah. So initially, we’ll do like an intake, I guess is how you would say it. So we kind of go through everything. So go through all the parts of like, how are your childs eating? How are they sleeping? Developmentally, how are they doing? Emotionally, all of that. And kind of get a sense of what’s happening. And then from there, we kind of go on to, well, is there something that you wanna work on? Is there something that could be improved on? Or does the childs feel like they wanna work on something? And then from there, we kind of make an individualized plan for them. And then depending on what that is, then we can decide how often we’re meeting or how often we need to check in, et cetera. So like I said, it’s very individualized, very personalized and I think it depends on the child as well as the parents and their willingness to make changes.
0:30:44.2 Kurt Baker: Are there any, I don’t wanna call it typical, but are there any prevalent reasons people might come to you and say, “I’m having an issue,” whatever. ‘Cause obviously, most people already have a pediatrician. Probably since your practice, your type of practice is relatively new, so if anybody’s of any age, for the six years old is very low chance that they’re going to this type of practice. So what kind of things I say, they wake up one day and go, “Hmm, maybe I better do another strategy. Maybe I better figure out something.” Are there some things that parents see or children issues, are there any kind of common things that you see at least starting off?
0:31:19.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: I think a lot of struggles for parents, I would say definitely eating, picky eating is a huge one. So that one I think a lot of parents struggle with and need a little bit more guidance too. The other thing I think is sleep, sleep routines, getting your child sleeping. And just like making sure that bedtime isn’t horrible for the parents and the child. And then younger ages, tantrums can be a big thing that parents just need a little bit more support on. So, it could be anything but I guess those are a lot that I see.
0:32:04.1 Kurt Baker: No, that’s important to know. So, if people are seeing, I guess the thing is, there’s some hope out there, right? So if you have a child who’s not eating well, a child is not sleeping well, and a child who maybe is throwing a lot of tantrums for one reason or another, there is some hope out there, even though for you might go to your pediatrician and they’re like, “Well, good luck. Might you try this.” And out the door they are guided.
0:32:24.8 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, exactly.
0:32:25.7 Kurt Baker: So here’s where you’re really trying to dig deep into how do you help them with these different habits is what I’m assuming, right?
0:32:33.6 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Right. Exactly.
0:32:34.9 Kurt Baker: Okay. All right. Okay. Well, now that we’ve really gotten the children on the path, right? So what do you see happening next as your profession kind of develops, what do you see it expanding into? So I’m sure, you’re starting off with certain things you’re doing and with a child, right? But childhood is gonna be challenging no matter how good your pediatrician is or your parents are or anything else. Well, how do you see the trends in your industry kind of filling this gap of things that parents are seeing and children are seeing, and the needs that are kind of arising as you guys learn more and more about the struggles and the challenges that children and parents are having right now?
0:33:16.0 Meaghan Andre-Brown: I think this overall model is gonna be super helpful for families. Just as like families and parents hear more about the model, I think they’re gonna understand how much value it can happen from here. So I think like you said, being a child, there’s a lot of struggles and challenges that as a parent, you’re gonna face. And so with this model and creating this relationship with your pediatrician and being able to be like, “Hey, this is happening right now. I need some extra guidance.” And just being able to get that support I think is huge. And yeah, I just think that right now, since it’s relatively new, a lot of parents aren’t aware of it. So really getting the word out there, like there is a different way that medicine can be practiced and really bringing back that relationship with the parent and doctor, I think is really key.
0:34:21.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Like, going back to old school. Like when you had a doctor that you’ve had for the rest of your life.
0:34:26.2 Kurt Baker: Right. That’s true.
0:34:27.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: And then that’s true. Your children had the same doctor. So it’s kind of going back to that old school mentality and really not focusing on, I have to do this ’cause insurance is telling me I have to do this. So I definitely see it growing and being really beneficial for a lot of parents.
0:34:47.2 Kurt Baker: Well, I definitely see a trend in the holistic side of things. I know that just in our own family is that it is not that we don’t… We acknowledge like traditional medicine is fine, right? But I’m like, “Can I do other things first, before you put me on a medicine or before you make me do certain procedures and whatever?” I mean, that’s all there and that’s great, but I don’t think the system’s set up that way. If I’m in a certain profession or certain specialty, it’s kind of like, if I’m a hammer, you’re a nail. Pretty much kind of deal, but especially medicine, it is much more complicated than that. And I think especially with our integrating physical, mental health, and situational social activity, just all this stuff fitting together, there may be other strategies. So you get into like how, if somebody comes in and you say, “Well, here’s a diagnosis, we have an issue.” Whatever it might be. So are you walking through kind of like all the strategies that might be out there, not just kind of there’s like this narrow ones that I sometimes feel like I get when I go to a traditional doctor.
0:35:48.6 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. So, we have more time to explore different things. My approach as a pediatrician, I definitely do a lot of conservative things before we jump into medications. Medications are great but I think that we could try, maybe try tweaking a couple of things before jumping into that. And it’s not that, in traditional medicine, we just don’t have that time. So it’s like, we know this works, so I’m gonna just give you this medication, which is fine. But I think in my model, we just have a little bit more time to spend with families and really like dive into other things versus just throwing a medication at.
0:36:31.4 Kurt Baker: Yeah. And again, I’m not against medicine, so don’t get me wrong here, but it’s kind of like, the thing I’ve noticed is like when you start with something, it’s almost like there’s some kind of side effect to something and then you start, then you’re adding something else to handle the side effect. And then before you know it, you’re on like five or six medicines, because the side effect of this one handled the side effect of that one. And I know at least in the mental health side, it’s like, we were actually at points with our son. We’re like, “Okay, we gotta start over, because we’re not even sure where we’re at anymore” Because a lot of that stuff takes weeks if not months, to like really flow in there.
0:37:00.3 Kurt Baker: But especially as a child’s growing, you’re not really sure what’s developmental anymore and what was the medicine and what was the side effect And all that kind of stuff. So I think trying to find solutions in addition to that, because as an example, I know one thing we were concerned about is it seems like a lot of people are on like anti-anxiety medicines. And anxiety’s a real thing but is it really necessary to go straight to that or are there other things you can do to try to lower the person’s anxiety? Before…
0:37:31.8 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, exactly.
0:37:33.7 Kurt Baker: You actually go and do something like that and try to…
0:37:36.2 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, definitely.
0:37:36.8 Kurt Baker: ‘Cause a lot of it is like situational environmental and things like that are creating these anxious things.
0:37:41.0 Meaghan Andre-Brown: For sure. Yeah. Anxiety is a big one. But yeah, there are things that we could try. Before, we need to intervene with some type of medication. And therapy, I always recommend therapy. I think it’s great. And getting started early when we’re just seeing beginning signs of some anxiety can be helpful. But definitely implementing strategies is key. It just like, and it starts like when they’re younger of like how to manage these big emotions and what to do when you’re frustrated or all those things that you’re teaching them as they grow up, they’re gonna take with them as a teenager. But definitely having coping mechanisms for anxiety is super important. And being able to see your pediatrician before it gets to a point where you need medications I think is key. And with this model, like I am seeing the child more often than we are doing check-ins with our teenagers. So we can see like, are there signs of anxiety that are popping up that we could maybe intervene before it gets too much? So yeah.
0:38:54.1 Kurt Baker: I think you’re touching on something that’s really important, which is really basic, but I think this model addresses, which is if you get used to having conversations about things about your health, then it’s gonna be much more natural. And that’s what we find, at least with our, what we deal with mental health of the kids is like, a lot of times, they’re kind of dealing with this on their own, because they’re not used to talking about it out loud with their parents or with professionals. But if you’re starting them having the conversations more often and younger on like small levels about how do you feel? You feel good, you feel bad, whether it’s mental, physical, whatever it is, you’re gonna pick up on things a lot sooner, which means you’re gonna have a better result because at least you’re gonna address the things that are actual issues and allow the other things to kind of develop. Is that like kind of what you’re saying?
0:39:42.6 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. I think the whole thing of just like developing relationships, that’s part of it. So like you know the child and then when you see them and you’re like, “Okay, something seems off. Let’s try to dive into that before things kind of get out of hand,” so.
0:40:00.1 Kurt Baker: Right, ’cause I know we encourage parents to talk to their kids more often, and the ones that do, they’ll actually voice it with you. If you start… One of our tagline is start the conversation. So if you start that conversation with your child in a non-judgmental, a non just, “Hey, and here’s the part you have to be careful of, don’t respond negatively no matter what they tell you.” That’s the hard part as a parent. If you ask them a question, be careful, ’cause you’re probably gonna get the answer, but you may not like the answer. And you have to be careful not to, be happy they have the conversation, right? ‘Cause the child is where they’re at, and now you can start to address it ’cause the key to finding out anything is you have to start by determining what the actual issue is. And I think talking, and especially with children, that oftentimes don’t really know what’s happening, ’cause sometimes they’ll feel like, well that’s normal. I have this pain, I’ve always had this pain. And until they actually talk to somebody who says, “Well, no, that’s not… Most people don’t have that pain. Maybe we can do something about that. Maybe we can help you with that.”
0:41:15.3 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. So definitely having these conversations. Yeah, for sure.
0:41:19.0 Kurt Baker: Okay. So where do you think we go from here as an industry? Are we gonna keep doing this more and more? So what do you think?
0:41:29.2 Meaghan Andre-Brown: I hope so. I do think it’s great and I am happy and excited about my practice. And I think, I hope to just continue to grow. And I think there is a real need for this. So I’m definitely hopeful and it’s, I think it’s gonna be like the future of medicine.
0:41:52.0 Kurt Baker: Okay. I mean ’cause you’re seeing a lot of the traditional doctors starting to come over to this. Is it fairly prevalent? Is that what’s happening?
0:42:00.4 Meaghan Andre-Brown: So yeah, it’s a lot of new practices are starting, so a lot of physicians in traditional medicine are kind of exploring like, what else is out there? What else can be done, ’cause it’s tough sometimes in traditional medicine just with the amount of administrative stuff that you don’t know that you’re getting into when you’re…
0:42:22.1 Kurt Baker: Yeah. I heard it’s like 35% to 40% of the cost for like a doctor’s office is just like processing the payments and the medical we’re getting. Following up with the insurance company and submitting it three and four times, ’cause they keep denying the claim and all that fun stuff.
0:42:35.3 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah. It’s a lot.
0:42:35.7 Kurt Baker: And people don’t really… On the consumer side, you just go, one of my things I say, I commented, I’ve commented with many people about this. I’ll go to a traditional doctor and I’ll get a, I’ll have a whatever visit and then my first notice is that your 90 days past due, because I never got a notice ’cause they were still battling with the insurance company for three months.
0:42:58.0 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Oh geez.
0:42:58.8 Kurt Baker: And my first notice directly was that, “Oh, by the way we denied that and you owe money.” And I’m like, “What are you talking about? It’s the first that this is the first notice I’ve gotten.” But little you guys could battle for months and I think some people don’t realize that that’s a cost, not just from a cost from the actual office standpoint. It drains the doctor too, ’cause they have to deal with all this stuff. And if they’re allowed to really spend more time focused on the child or whoever, ten you’re gonna get a better result, I think, right?
0:43:31.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Yeah, no, for sure.
0:43:32.6 Kurt Baker: Okay. Well I’m an advocate ’cause I did it. I just made the switch myself as an adult, so.
0:43:37.1 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Which is great.
0:43:38.3 Kurt Baker: I appreciate what you’re doing.
0:43:40.3 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Thanks.
0:43:41.8 Kurt Baker: Thank you very much for coming with us today, doctor.
0:43:43.5 Meaghan Andre-Brown: Thank you for having me.
[laughter]
